Mainstream media pulling out hatchets/long knives on Obama

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 5:40 am

Holy shit, have the talking heads lost their fucking minds here? They're not even attempting to tell the truth anymore; they're already labelling this the Obama recession and are blatantly pushing stories of Obama not having proper citizenship. You know, instead of actually reporting or just not telling lies.

So this must have been what it was like living through the Clinton years. At least we have the Internet.

Crissa · Post by **Crissa** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:56 am

... Except it took until '94 to get it in the Clinton administration, '98 was the worst year of it. '00 actually was crazy with an economic downturn that actually didn't have much unemployment, so it was really empty as downturns go...

...And gosh, it sure got better under Bush, didn't it? </sarcasm>

Anyhow, this is a direct result of 'neutral' reporting in the face of one side lying. If they remain 'neutral' and don't point out blatant lies... Ugh. So not neutral.

-Crissa

Cielingcat · Post by **Cielingcat** » Wed Mar 11, 2009 5:33 pm

As an extension to what Crissa said, this is because the Right has completely won the propaganda war in America. Their media can lie, cheat, and steal all they want, but pointing that out makes you a left wing loon that they can insult and ignore.

Neutrality is defined now not by being politically neutral, but by allowing an equal amount of time to listen to Rush Limbaugh's talking points as you do to anything else.

Also, in the event of two guest commentators being on a news show, the Liberal commentator will often be shouted down by the Conservative one when they try to call them out on their blatant lies.

Ganbare Gincun · Post by **Ganbare Gincun** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 1:23 am

Cielingcat wrote:As an extension to what Crissa said, this is because the Right has completely won the propaganda war in America. Their media can lie, cheat, and steal all they want, but pointing that out makes you a left wing loon that they can insult and ignore.

They haven't won the propaganda war. They may have a monopoly on "traditional" news media sources, but most people these days look to the internet for their news these days anyways, and even those that do rely on the mainstream media are savvy enough to understand what the real story is. The Right could win the propaganda war if they hadn't all turned into a bunch of religious zealots, but they are so detached from reality that they aren't able to use their media power to their full advantage. If they could put forth some cogent political arguments, I'd be much more concerned about their machinations.

Count Arioch the 28th · Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:27 am

The right wing WILL win the propaganda war because Americans are ignorant, inbred, drooling retards. They WANT to believe that all their problems are from affirmative action/gays marrying/taxes on people that make more than their entire extended family makes in their entire lifetime/political correctness/whatever they're fixated on.

We are a few voices in a sea of screaming retards.

Surgo · Post by **Surgo** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:25 am

They sure as hell weren't winning any propaganda war five months back.

Ganbare Gincun · Post by **Ganbare Gincun** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:27 am

Count_Arioch_the_28th wrote:The right wing WILL win the propaganda war because Americans are ignorant, inbred, drooling retards. They WANT to believe that all their problems are from affirmative action/gays marrying/taxes on people that make more than their entire extended family makes in their entire lifetime/political correctness/whatever they're fixated on.

We are a few voices in a sea of screaming retards.

I live in a VERY conservative part of the United States, and I can see that the conservative propaganda is losing traction even here. It's not enough traction to flip the state from a Red State to a Blue State, but more then I would have thought possible over the last 8 years. Just let the G.O.P. keep being crazy obstructionists and see how far they get come election time outside of the New Confederacy. They are desperate to regain power but they have no leadership and no ideas. If Bobby Jindal, Joe The Plumber, Sarah Palin, and Rush Limbaugh are the best they have to offer, they're still going to be in real trouble come mid-term election time.

Crissa · Post by **Crissa** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:33 am

Well, as long as right-wingers talk a good line but bad things happen anyhow, they're gonna lose in the overall polls. That's just how it is.

It doesn't stop, however, that in the discussion of the stimulus package, for instance, elected Republicans were interviewed on network news 2:1 to elected Democrats. Which is odd, because elected Democrats outnumber elected Republicans right now. By a solid margin. One might say a super-majority.

-Crissa

Ganbare Gincun · Post by **Ganbare Gincun** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:47 am

Crissa wrote:Well, as long as right-wingers talk a good line but bad things happen anyhow, they're gonna lose in the overall polls. That's just how it is.

It doesn't stop, however, that in the discussion of the stimulus package, for instance, elected Republicans were interviewed on network news 2:1 to elected Democrats. Which is odd, because elected Democrats outnumber elected Republicans right now. By a solid margin. One might say a super-majority.

-Crissa

Networks + Republicans = working hand in hand to fuck America. But I think most people have figured that out by now - hence why Obama was elected despite the shameful, race-baiting campaign that was carried out against him. I'm not saying that Obama and the Democrats have this on lockdown - not by a long shot - but I think that all of the psychotic screaming has woken people up. The G.O.P. is definitely NOT the party of Reagan anymore - Compassionate Conservatism has gone right out the window.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:14 am

Surgo wrote:They sure as hell weren't winning any propaganda war five months back.

Sure they are. What happens when you even discuss overhauling institutions that make the rich very rich?

Why don't we eliminate Aetna, Humana, Blue Shield, and Kaiser and have a national health plan that covers everyone? Seriously, we spend more per capita on healthcare and yet one in six of us don't get any of it. We have a lower life expectancy than Cuba for goodness sakes.
The Stock Market? How about we eliminate it? All those guys who make their money facilitating gambling on the moment by moment perceived value of companies to other gamblers, how about we classify that shit as the anti-productive gambling that it is and just eliminate it from the economy altogether? Companies need to capitalize sure, but those really are long term investments, there's no reason for the American economy to support these short term pillagers.
Why prop up the private banks at all? Seriously, we have to loan people money to start factories, own homes, go to school, and so on. But those loans are, in the long run, profitable. How about we just give those loans out directly from the state at lower interest and the entire economy has more desirable and more stable credit?

Go ahead and try to get those viewpoints on the air, I double dog dare you. Obama doesn't have the nuts to ask for a national banking policy, because he knows he can't even get that discussion into the air. Because the right wing has won the propaganda war in the United States. The only discussion available is between the middle right who want to save our bullshit unfair system; and the crazy far right who want to tear down the last pieces of social safety net our country has, tear down the government, st taxes to zero, and watch the nation descend into an anarchy they laughably believe they would come out on top of.

The democrats are not left wing. They are about the same as the UK Conservative Party.

-Username17

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:37 am

Chances are you'd get arrested on charges of Communism if you tried to suggest such things. Even now, there is apparently this new fight against the so-called evils of socialism, communism, and "anything else I don't understand but it sounds like it doesn't involve the rich personally fucking everyone else, myself included, with a rake".

And wouldn't you know it, I had the perfect image to post with that, but didn't save it.

Boy: Hey Sarah, want to share lunch with me?
Girl: Mrs. Jenson, Billy's being a communist!

Tshern · Post by **Tshern** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:06 pm

FrankTrollman]The democrats are not left wing. They are about the same as the UK Conservative Party. [/quote] Not too long ago, on another forum, an American user whined how the Democrats went so far to the left they almost fell off the face of the Earth. I found that extremely hilarious considering that even our tiny nationalist party that is too extreme to get a single person to our 200 member Parliament isn't quite as right wing as the Democratic Party. [quote= wrote:Chances are you'd get arrested on charges of Communism if you tried to suggest such things. Even now, there is apparently this new fight against the so-called evils of socialism, communism, and "anything else I don't understand but it sounds like it doesn't involve the rich personally fucking everyone else, myself included, with a rake".

Alas, you are so very right here. But being arrested for supporting communism was an exaggeration, wasn't it? That doesn't happen anymore, right?

Maxus · Post by **Maxus** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:10 pm

Tshern wrote:
FrankTrollman]The democrats are not left wing. They are about the same as the UK Conservative Party. [/quote] Not too long ago, on another forum, an American user whined how the Democrats went so far to the left they almost fell off the face of the Earth. I found that extremely hilarious considering that even our tiny nationalist party that is too extreme to get a single person to our 200 member Parliament isn't quite as right wing as the Democratic Party. [quote= wrote:Chances are you'd get arrested on charges of Communism if you tried to suggest such things. Even now, there is apparently this new fight against the so-called evils of socialism, communism, and "anything else I don't understand but it sounds like it doesn't involve the rich personally fucking everyone else, myself included, with a rake".
Alas, you are so very right here. But being arrested for supporting communism was an exaggeration, wasn't it? That doesn't happen anymore, right?

It doesn't.

Crissa · Post by **Crissa** » Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:57 pm

Oh, you'll get arrested, just not charged with 'communism'. Just things like 'having a taillight out' and 'resisting arrest'.

-Crissa

Ganbare Gincun · Post by **Ganbare Gincun** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 2:14 am

FrankTrollman wrote:The only discussion available is between the middle right who want to save our bullshit unfair system; and the crazy far right who want to tear down the last pieces of social safety net our country has, tear down the government, st taxes to zero, and watch the nation descend into an anarchy they laughably believe they would come out on top of.

The Right has managed to eradicate any discussion of the alternatives that you suggested from the American political landscape, but they still don't wield the kind of sheer political and temporal power that they did after 9/11. Just the fact that people are capable of realizing that the Republicans are a bunch of incompetent assholes is quite a turnaround from just a few years ago. Their influence may not diminish quickly enough to enact any truly meaningful reforms of our economic system within the next four years, but I'm hoping that we might - over time - get ourselves back on the right track again.

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 2:50 am

Tshern wrote: But being arrested for supporting communism was an exaggeration, wasn't it? That doesn't happen anymore, right?

It was an exaggeration. But a lot of people (of the not-too-clever variety) don't actually realise that, and will at least give you a hard time. And tell you to "go back to China if you love communism".

I'm not sure what I love more - the "go BACK to China" part, the idea that China is actually a communist nation despite what it might say (comparison: any place that calls itself the Democratic Republic of X is not a democracy), or the fact that if I was to stoop to their level, a response would be "Go to Sudan if you dislike government intervention and restrictions on your lovely free market, I hear that worked out well for them".

angelfromanotherpin · Post by **angelfromanotherpin** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 3:25 am

Koumei wrote:(comparison: any place that calls itself the Democratic Republic of X is not a democracy)

One of my friends is in poli-sci and did a presentation based on 'signs your country is crappy.' Signs included...

• The name contains any combination of 'people's' 'democratic' and 'republic.' If it has all three you are especially screwed.

• The head of state has a military rank for their title. The lower the rank, the worse it is.

• The head of state was 'freely elected' by a suspiciously overwhelming majority.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 7:42 am

I think the word "Republic" is misplaced there. Almost all countries have the word "Republic" in their name. I live in one. The Czech Republic. There's also the Republic of Ireland, the Republic of France, and so on and so forth. Kingdom is also not a good marker for that sort of thing, because while The Kingdom of Swaziland is probably the worst place on Earth, and the Kingdom of Kuwait is fucked from here to eternity, the fact is that the Kingdom of Spain is a pretty nice place as is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Countries just have words like "Kingdom," "Republic," and "United" in their name and it doesn't signify anything at all. Having the word "Republic" doesn't mean that you have meaningful elections, and having the word "Kingdom" doesn't mean that you don't.

But I'll agree with you on the words "People's" and "Democratic." Those have a high correlation with bullshit. I'll also throw in "Islamic." Putting that word in your country's name never helped anything.

Basically, if it's an adjective used in the name of a Scandinavian country, it probably isn't all bad. So Kingdom of Sweden fine, Republic of Finland fine.

-Username17

TavishArtair · Post by **TavishArtair** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 7:45 am

The way I read it, it was "combination," so we're counting People's Republic and Democratic Republic but not just Republic. Or maybe not.

angelfromanotherpin · Post by **angelfromanotherpin** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 1:19 pm

TavishArtair wrote:The way I read it, it was "combination," so we're counting People's Republic and Democratic Republic but not just Republic. Or maybe not.

Yes, the combination part was important.

Lago PARANOIA · Post by **Lago PARANOIA** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 8:31 pm

So what accomplishments do you expect from Obama?

Myself, I think the power of unions are going to be strengthened during this administration. Even though the Democrats are fucking corporate-whore bunnypants, he believes very strongly in union growth.

Also, I believe that our relationship with Russia is going to get a lot warmer, Israel is going to get a lot cooler, and we'll normalize our relationship with Cuba. I think that if Obama gets elected to two terms we'll do a lot better with Iran.

Obama does want to escalate action in Afghanistan. A lot. I'm not sure how I feel about that.

He really wants to move forward with the Green economy and I approve. I supported fission power only as a very, very last resort when it comes down between that and oil/coal. But I don't think it'll be necessary since safe and renewable energy independence and production is going to be the next big thing. Nuclear power plants will pretty much just left to be run to their end of core lifetimes and then decomissioned.

If the Democrats don't get creamed in 2010, gays will probably get full federal de-jure rights by the end of his first term. Actually getting protection of gay marriage in the constitution isn't going to happen until the next generation comes of voting age but by then we probably won't even care.

The cheating and lawbreaking by Republicans goes up as they go into a self-imposed idelogical death spiral; even if they reversed their electoral fortunes every high-profile Republican right now except for Michael Steele wants the party to become more conservative, not less. When Steele inevitably gets kicked out of his RNC chair by the end of Spring 2009 the cycle will be complete.

The Republican party may make gains in the 2010 election depending on some very well-timed scandals and might even win the 2012 election, but the combination of the death spiral and very hostile demographic changes will make 2014/2016 pretty much unwinnable for them without major platform changes. They might decide to stop sticking the screws to gays by then, but I doubt it.

Neeeek · Post by **Neeeek** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 8:56 pm

Lago PARANOIA wrote: The Republican party may make gains in the 2010 election depending on some very well-timed scandals and might even win the 2012 election

The GOP is going to get killed in the 2010 elections. The Dems might lose some seats in the house, but have only one really vulnerable seat in the Senate (Reid in NV, and a lot of Dems would trade that seat away if they get 2 others just to get a better Senate leader), while the Republicans have about 8.

zeruslord · Post by **zeruslord** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 9:29 pm

Lago PARANOIA wrote:Obama does want to escalate action in Afghanistan. A lot. I'm not sure how I feel about that.

The reason we haven't won in Afghanistan is that Afghanistan has never existed. The country was drawn through the middle of a bunch of ethnic and tribal groups so that the British and Russian empires wouldn't run into each other. The reason that we can't hit the Taliban in Pakistan is that Pakistan likes to pretend that they control the part of the Pashtun tribal regions that is outside the British/Russian DMZ from the 1880s, and we choose to let them keep that illusion. Seriously, there is no historical Afghanistan. Go look at the Wikipedia article. Every section either divides Afghanistan along the border between Pashtuns and everyone else or mentions that the Pashtun regions of India were conquered too.

Ganbare Gincun · Post by **Ganbare Gincun** » Sat Mar 14, 2009 1:52 am

Lago PARANOIA wrote:Myself, I think the power of unions are going to be strengthened during this administration. Even though the Democrats are fucking corporate-whore bunnypants, he believes very strongly in union growth.

Given the weak economy, I think the Unions are going to get kicked very squarely in the balls. They may be able to retain their power in most of the major cities, but given the fact that there are so many people out of work and are more then willing to cross a picket line to earn a paycheck, any collective bargaining attempts on the part of the unions is going to be severely compromised.

For example: AT&T Wireless is having a strike right now in all of their customer service call centers on the west coast right now. But it doesn't matter - they are just ignoring the union, letting the workers strike their little hearts out, and either bringing in non-union workers to replace them in the U.S. call centers or sending the work to call centers overseas. Not that it really matters, I suppose - I suspect they're going to be closing all of their call centers and sending them overseas as quickly as possible anyway.

Lago PARANOIA wrote:The Republican party may make gains in the 2010 election depending on some very well-timed scandals and might even win the 2012 election, but the combination of the death spiral and very hostile demographic changes will make 2014/2016 pretty much unwinnable for them without major platform changes. They might decide to stop sticking the screws to gays by then, but I doubt it.

I don't believe that the G.O.P. will be able to make any election gains until after 2012. They are a bankrupt party of religious lunatics, racists, amd warmongers that don't even feel like they need to offer new ideas, much less try and try and concoct some. This article sums up how the Republican Party needs to evolve to stay competitive, but based on the comments of the posters there and the response of the Conservative Media to this opinion piece, I don't think they're going to be taking David Frum up on his ideas anytime soon.

Count Arioch the 28th · Sat Mar 14, 2009 4:10 am

You people are too optimistic. Americans are so stupid. Things are only going to get worse.